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Monday, July 14, 2014

Charedi Yeshivas are again running away from the missiles in the South, what about the protection of Torah learning?

Source: Mishpacha Newspaper י"ב תמוז

This is the third time in 5 years that this is happening and I am posting about it (Yeshivas are moving north out of danger, what about the protection of Torah learning?Should yeshiva students move away from the South to avoid the missiles?). Three times in Halacha makes a חזקה, so it is fair to say that we can draw conclusions from the actions of the Yeshivas. What I posted then is as relevant today as it was then:

The Charedi world justifies the draft exemption for yeshiva students based on the following:

1. Torah learning protects everyone
2. The boys are engaged in מלחמתה של תורה
3. Talmidie Chachamim don't need protection

Based on these it would seem that the Yeshivas should stay where they are. If the boys who are learning are engaged in war just like the soldiers why should they abandon their posts? In addition if Torah learning protects, let them stay where they are and be protected by their Torah. Their move undermines the claim for draft exemptions and looks very bad. The soldiers are preparing to entering Gaza to fight while the yeshiva bachurim are fleeing to safer havens.

12 Comments:

At 4:08 PM, Blogger Jonathan B. Horen said...

Well, we could call it a "tactical retreat", designed to lure the enemy into the open; or, that their movement is a "diversion", to draw the enemy's attention away from the real thrust of Tzahal's ground attack. Or not.

 
At 3:34 AM, Blogger Binyomin said...

If your not joking, then I have to stop rolling on the floor....

 
At 4:15 PM, Blogger DanielHochman said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

 
At 4:17 PM, Blogger DanielHochman said...

I'm sorry but your premise is ludicrous. Let me ask you a question:
If a terrorist comes into a Yeshiva CHV"S should the boys just sit there like sitting ducks so that they can be consistent with their belief that "Torah Learning Protects"? There is something called hishtadlus and we need to take necessary precautions to save lives.

No one claims that we don't need an army and that Torah learning alone can protect- we obviously need both- Learning and normal hishtadlus.

 
At 4:19 PM, Blogger bluke said...

But the Charedi world claims that Yeshiva boys are soldiers engaged in מלחמתו של תורה and that תורה מגנא ומצלי. That is the whole basis for draft exemptions. If that is the case then the yeshivas need to stay where they are to continue the war just like soldiers do.

 
At 4:23 PM, Blogger Binyomin said...

My understanding is that they claim that their Torah learning is protecting everyone therefore everyone is pretty much obligated to support them financially (at least through the govt. and taxes that are paid and channeled to them). If the government reduces the money they consider they are *entitled* to receive then they call the govt Amoleik etc. and say they hate Torah and want to destroy them etc. etc.

 
At 4:25 PM, Blogger Menachem Lipkin said...

Daniel's analogy is not valid as their is no immenent threat like that of a "terrorist coming into the Yeshiva". No, this behavior is pure hypocrisy.

 
At 5:00 PM, Blogger DanielHochman said...

Bluke- I assume that the Yeshiva did not adjourn for the zman and that they are simply learning elsewhere. If that's the case then they are continuing to protect. In addition, they can do their job better if they are not interrupting their learning 10 times a day running to shelters.

Menachem- If there is no danger- why did they bother leaving? For fun?

If they did indeed cancel the rest of zman then you are both absolutely correct, but no Gadol would sanction that. Gedolim also don't sanction Bein Hazmanim "fun trips" while war is going on, but I'm sure the charedi-hating blogs will enjoy posting such reports if the war extends beyond Tisha B'Av. Hopefully it will not.

 
At 5:03 PM, Blogger DanielHochman said...

After reading the article from Mishpacha that you posted above it's clear they are all continuing to learn elsewhere.

 
At 5:23 PM, Blogger Menachem Lipkin said...

Daniel I didn't say "no danger", but given the success of our defense system there is no imminent threat either, like that of a "terrorist entering the Yeshiva". So you need to answer why, given the relatively low threat level, these Yeshivas turned tail and ran.

And if c"v this war continues into ben hazmanim we sure as heck better not see any bochrim vacationing.

 
At 5:30 PM, Blogger DanielHochman said...

I'm not there to asses the level of danger but either they feel it is dangerous enough in which case normal hishtadlus kicks in (as I explained above) OR it's possibly not so dangerous but about being able to learn without having to be panicked and interrupted 10 times a day.

You could argue that they should stay to commiserate with the local residents but if any of those residents had practical means of moving up north- they would too. For most it's simply not practical- for these Yeshivas it was. Was is this hypocritical if they continue to learn up-north?

 
At 5:59 PM, Blogger Menachem Lipkin said...

Daniel, the other issue which makes this whole thing a bit difficult, is that there are certain, shall we say, notable rabbis who claim that places like B'nei Brak and Kiryat Sefer are "protected". This puts the lie to the idea that these rabbis at least, don't believe that the "protection" is location specific.

 

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