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Saturday, October 08, 2005

How do we feed children on Yom Kippur?

The Minchas Chinuch writes in Mitzva שי"ג that since there is a prohibition to feed a child an issur it is prohibited to feed children on Yom Kippur any more then they need. He states that children between 3 and 8, you should not feed at all. It comes out from the Minchas Chinuch that for children who can feed themselves it should be prohibited for you to feed them and in fact even a baby you can get a non-Jew to feed. (also see the Mishna Berura סימן תרט"ז ס"ק ה)

This Minchas Chinuch is clearly not accepted l'halacha the question is why not?

R' Tzvi Pesach Frank in Mikraie Kodesh as well as other Acharonim offer the following suggestion.

By other issurim (feeding a child pig) the food has a שם איסור, it is an איסור תפצא on the food and therefore even though the child is not chayav in mitzvos we are prohibited to feed him issurim, it is like feeding him poison. However, food on Yom Kippur is clearly an issur on the person, the kosher food does not suddenly turn into an issur, the person is prohibited from eating on Yom Kippur. Therefore, a child who has no issur of eating, for them the food is completely permitted and they can eat it. Since they are allowed to eat it the parents are allowed to feed them.

8 Comments:

At 12:11 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Shavua tov
By the hand of HKBH, my rov spoke about this inyan this shabbos. Turns out he flat out rejected this approach that you offered:
He based his shiur on the Rambam and Ran. The Rambam says that The Inuyyim are deorraisa. The Ran asks, if so, how can it be that we are allowed to wash a kid? rather, it must be that they (except achilah and sh'tia) are derabanan. Mashma, that were these innuyim to be deorraisa, they would be assur to give a bath etc to a kid.
Kasha - the Ran himself admits, obviosuly, that achila is deoraissa. If so, how can you give your kid food to eat?
IF the Ran held of the svara you mentioned, he would have said that the same svara works for the other inuyim, and he could have learned that they were deoraissa, and nto have to reject the Rambam. ELLA MAI, must be he doesnt hold of this svara. The svara is fine and dandy for the Rambam, though. (There were other answers suggested at the shiur as well, but the Rov flat out rejected them all by explaining that IF the Ran held of them, he would not have rejected the Rambam outright).
Now, I know what you are thinking, muct be we hold like the Rambam. Nope. He proved from a Magen Avrohom and MB that we indeed hold like the Ran (the exact proof escapes me right now, but it had to do with taanis sha'os).

Answer is...
The Ran learns that only Shaar Inuyim are assur for kids, since they are not pikuach nefesh if ones witholds them ALL DAY. Meaning, if a kid doesnt have a bath for the entirety of YK he will not be in a makom sakana. However, by achila, he will be. Therefore, even though, at 5:00 pm, if the kid doesnt eat for an hour, he will not be in a sakanas nefashos, nevertheless, he is not included in the prohibition of achilah on YK, since the Torah would not obligate him to fast a little, when it is impossible to fast the whole day.
This is b'kitzur nimratz (and im not sure how clear, which is unfortunate, since he is sooo clear)

While I am on the topic of this mara d'asra, he recently gave a series of shiurim on the topic of zmanim (a favortie of Reb Bluke), in while he said no less than 35 rishonim, plus an additional 40 gedolei achronim hold of shitas rabbeinu tam for tzeis. Seems, he was mechvein to Reb Bluke's big kasha on RT, that the metzius here in EY simply doesnt fit with it, and Reb Bluke concluded that RT must be talking about France. Nope, says the Rov. RT is explaining a gemara in which Rav Yehudah is talking. He clearly must be talking about EY as that is where RY lived. Moreover, he siad, were this to be a kasha, its a kasha on the Gra, as 13./5 mins after shkia, it is not dark at all really. So he had a way of explainiing both shittas, while fitting a bit better, he agrees that both are not so pashut to say in metzius, and that is why the minhag in EY is 35/40 mins (though, as Rav Moshe writes, that is a ta'us, and even in EY they (we) should be holdign RT).

Gmar chasima tova

 
At 4:24 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

what about food cooked on shabbos/yom kippur?

 
At 8:03 AM, Anonymous Bill Selliger said...

The svara you mentioned is really a Tosafos: The question being dealt with was how could a certain Tanna eat before havdala on a cloudy Shabbos, if we have a klal from a Gemara in Chullin that "Tzaddikkim ain HKBH maivi takala al yadam?" Tosafos answers that by eating before Havdala, there is no issur on the food.

 
At 9:39 AM, Blogger bluke said...

I never said that R' Tam was talking about France, in any case the numbers don't work for France either.

Regarding the Gra, I believe that Dr. Leo Levi did a study in Yerushalayim and was able to see stars at 13.5 minutes

 
At 7:24 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Could be... but the Luach EY, and the Chazon Ish both hold that stars are not seen until 35 / 40 mins after shkia. Not every star counts. They have to be the right size stars.
If the correct stars were visible in EY, im sure Rav YM Tuchatzinsky (the rov who wrote the luach) would have paskened 13.5 minutes, as he was a "gra-neck" and a yerushalmi.

With regards to my mistake in quoting you, of course i apologize. I didnt look back to see what you said, it was by memory, evidentally, not the best one...
GCT

 
At 8:46 PM, Blogger bluke said...

Rav Tuchatzinsky actually holds Tzeis is 22 minutes at the eqinox in Israel.

You are right not every star counts, R' Levi was trying to explain the Gra, he is an expert and saw stars 15 minutes after shkia.

 
At 7:31 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

who says he is an expert on *which* stars? the CI and the luach disagree with him...

 
At 10:33 PM, Blogger bluke said...

No one, he is a scientist who deals with these things. All he said is that 15 minutes after shkia in Yerushalayim he can see stars as he is an expert in astronomy.

 

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