Sunday, January 29, 2012

A one way street

In his weekly Mishpacha magazine column Yonasan Rosenblum told the following story.

He was in South Africa for the first Sinai Indaba and he had a debate with R' Moshe Taragin a Rebbe from Gush (a product of YU and R' Lichtenstein and a big Talmid Chacham) on the Charedi vs Dati Leumi perspective. He writes that he was impressed that R' Taragin was very fair in the debate and even praised the Charedi community. A few weeks ago R' Taragin invited him to Gush to speak to the American Talmidim about the Charedi community given what was going on. The next day R' Taragin sent him a 9 minute video detailing all of the chesed work done by the Charedi community as a response to the media storm from the events in Bet Shemesh.

Now we come to a very interesting admission by Yonasan Rosenblum and I quote:

I was deeply touched by the gesture. But it also forced me to ask myself a question. Had the national religious community been under a similar assault in the secular press as it frequently is, would I have spent any time looking for videos highlighting the wonderful aspects of that community in order to lessen the public outcry? And if not why not?

I think the answer to his question is very clear. The YU/R' Lichtenstein world has never delegitimized the Charedi world. They have very clear ideological differences the role of secular studies and the significance of the State of Israel and other issues), but they have always said that while we may disagree on those we agree on so many other things, namely, limud hatorah and kiyum hamitzvos. They have never called the Charedi leaders kofrim or mocked them. People in the YU world give money to Charedi causes and go to hear shiurim from Charedi Rabbis.

However, the same can not be said for the Charedi world. There is a general attitude in the Charedi world of thoroughly delegitimizing all those who do not follow the one true Charedi way, and having no respect for such people. It is found in the leadership, in the charedi media, and in the street. The Charedi world insists that it has the one true path and everyone else is wrong. They delegitimize everything else. R' Shach made the statement that it is a disgrace to call Hesder yeshivos, yeshivos, he made a similar statement about Maarava. The Charedi world would mock RYBS and did not give him the respect that he deserves. RHS would never be invited to speak at a Charedi event. At the recent Aguda convention Modern Orthodox were compared to misyavnim.

So IMHO the answer to his question is very clear, he would not search for videos because that would legitimize the Dati Leumi position in some way and that cannot be done by a true Charedi.


Commenter Abbi said...

You really summed up the hard truths.

Critically Observant Jew said...

Great summary. Now the question of action: when a visibly Hareidi meshulach from Israel, certified by the local Agudath Israel branch comes to an Chutz LaAretz shul collecting for the wedding of his 6th daughter - do I, as someone who does not associate with Hareidim, give him money?

Ben Waxman said...

Critically Observant:

That is easy - a Jew needs help, you help him if you can. The harder question is what to do when a fundraiser for the Mir comes around. This isn't the Eida who is aiding the kanoim in BS. This is people who simply want to learn. Do you help them?

bluke said...

I have to disagree with Ben. If you help someone marry off his 6th daughter (and help him provide an apartment) you are simply helping continue the cycle of poverty and people not working and people living/promising things beyond their means.

Most people collecting to marry off their 6th daughter are doing so because they promised an apartment or a certain sum of money to marry off their daughter which they don't have. I don;t believe that you are in way obligated to help someone in Israel buy an apartment for his son-in law.

Critically Observant Jew said...

That's why I made a case for 6th daughter as opposed to, chas veshalom, a serious illness in the family, orphans, etc.

Berel said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Berel said...

I don't know how anyone who follows blogs can consider the MO world tolerant.The Chareide world has no blogs like this one always finding fault with non Chareim.And this is from the few opinion blogs that is actually open minded and not pure vitriol.

On another note I lived in the Charedi world my whole life.The ONLY comment I ever heard a Rebbe or Rov make against YU was that in YU they don't understand the difference between Torah being Chochmas Hashem and secular man made wisdom.It was only after looking at certain blogs that I came to understand that comment

SF2K01 said...


There are two sides of the Charedi world. There are those that bash and those that ignore.

Those that constantly degrade Modern Orthodoxy/YU are generally ignoramuses because they don't know how good YU actually is.

Those that are silent about YU know that someone like Rav Herschel Shachter could give their own gedolim a run for their money, and as a result they don't talk about YU because that would call attention to YU as a place of Torah.

If it isn't clear, the former are usually the zealous, quick to foam at the mouth, and the latter are the majority of Charedim who prefer inaction through silence to an open stance.

Berel said...

Your explanation of why Chareidm don't bash YU is incorrect but we will leave it at that.

bluke said...


Considering that I said that Charedim DO bash YU your comment makes no sense.

Berel said...

I'm referring to the comment above me that says the reason Chareidim don't bash YU is because they are ignoramuses.

bluke said...

Ok, so what is your explanation?

Berel said...

My explanation is the reason I was trying not to give it: I don't want to gratuitously speak against group of Orthodox Jews .Therefore it is easier to just ignore them.I'm also concerned about commenting based on the expression "men chepert nit a Chosid vegen zain Gartel"But upon your request I will say my opinion.

As a child in the pre Internet days the only comment I ever heard made against MO/YU was the one I referenced above in my first post. Most MO people I knew personally had for the most part a minimalist attitude towards Torah & Mitzvos. Even the MO Rabbis I knew generally weren't willing to send their own children to MO schools and gave off a subtle attitude that MO is B'Dieved.Therefore I didn't think about them much.

Today that there is internet and the blog world has exposed me to the MO world my opinion of that world has lowered considerably.I don't want to elaborate further so I'll leave with these two points The amount of hate MO have for Charedim (or is it an inferiority complex?)or anyone who isn't a successful professional and more importantly the anthropomorphic attitude towards Hashem and Torah is ABSOLUTELY UNACCEPTABLE

I will not post further on this issue.Not to answer questions, counterclaims,counter accusations,blatant lies, or any thing else .