Thoughts on Torah, working, living in Israel and how they go together.
Friday, September 02, 2005
117,500 - The number of people learning full time in Israel
53,500 learning in Kollel 41,000 learning in Yeshiva 23,000 learning in Yeshiva Ketana
These numbers are amazing.
Update
The numbers are from this weeks Mishpacha, they are based on figures from the government.
10 comments:
Anonymous
said...
I dont think there are that many in the situation you describe. I think someone has been listening to a lot of propaganda (read:lashon hara, rechilus and motzi shem ra) from the Torah-community-hating press.
Even those that are "just officially on the rolls to avoid the army but not actually learning" i think a lot of them are learning part time / half day etc
"I think someone has been listening to a lot of propaganda (read:lashon hara, rechilus and motzi shem ra) from the Torah-community-hating press."
well that would be loshon hara itself. I know a whole bunch of people like that, who don't seem to think of themselves as atypical. I lived in Israel, have family there - a substantial portion of charedim are on the rolls but not learning,esp among chassidim
agala you dont have to pay for anyones living. dont offer any tzedakah. there will always be people who want to the mitzvah deoraisa of giving tzeddakah and helping aspiring talmidei chachamim.
There is a famous story that Rav Chaim MiVolozhin was collecting money, and as he rode from town to town, he was in a carriage. One of the people he tried to solicit funds from taina'd on him that he wants him money to go to the yeshiva students wellbeing, not to the rosh yeshiva's wagon.
Rav Chaim told him that HKBH helps the people who give l'shma - to be the ones who help the yeshiva students, and the ones who dont give l'shma will be the ones who help pay for the rides the rosh yeshiva needs to take.
Would you be happier if your money went to things that you really disaprove of, like chillul shabbos? or how about taking our jewish brothers out of their homes and lives and dumping them on the street with no where to go (what we like to call disengagement)? Maybe you want you money to go to treif food for the ministers in the govt?
These number make absolutely no sense, so I hope they are no accurate. There should be at least 3 times the number of students in Yeshiva Ketana as in Kollel and less students in Yeshiva than in Kollel.
Last I checked, the Chareidim were having something like an average of 8 kids per family. I think it would make sense if more students were in Yeshiva Ketana than in Kollel.
If the numbers are accurate, we (collectively) have problems.
Maybe the numbers do make sense. Just about everyone winds up in Kollel. And they stay there for years and years. That explains the large number there.
10 comments:
I dont think there are that many in the situation you describe. I think someone has been listening to a lot of propaganda (read:lashon hara, rechilus and motzi shem ra) from the Torah-community-hating press.
Even those that are "just officially on the rolls to avoid the army but not actually learning" i think a lot of them are learning part time / half day etc
"I think someone has been listening to a lot of propaganda (read:lashon hara, rechilus and motzi shem ra) from the Torah-community-hating press."
well that would be loshon hara itself. I know a whole bunch of people like that, who don't seem to think of themselves as atypical. I lived in Israel, have family there - a substantial portion of charedim are on the rolls but not learning,esp among chassidim
but i dont know the percentage (that's why I wrote "the question is what percentage") and neither do you.
thats why I asked bluke where he got these figures and what proportion he assumes is really learning more than eg a guy with a job.
"i think a lot of them are learning part time / half day etc"
some of this group are, some aren't. same as everything else.
the point is that these stats are not transparent figures
Nearly twice as many in Yeshiva as in Yeshiva Ketana. Very strange. What are the ages for Yeshiva Ketana?
How many of them will work after school?
What do you think, Do I have to pay for their living?
yeshiva ketana - 9th grade till 11th grade
yeshiva gedola - from then till marriage
kollel - after marriage
agala
you dont have to pay for anyones living. dont offer any tzedakah. there will always be people who want to the mitzvah deoraisa of giving tzeddakah and helping aspiring talmidei chachamim.
There is a famous story that Rav Chaim MiVolozhin was collecting money, and as he rode from town to town, he was in a carriage. One of the people he tried to solicit funds from taina'd on him that he wants him money to go to the yeshiva students wellbeing, not to the rosh yeshiva's wagon.
Rav Chaim told him that HKBH helps the people who give l'shma - to be the ones who help the yeshiva students, and the ones who dont give l'shma will be the ones who help pay for the rides the rosh yeshiva needs to take.
Would you be happier if your money went to things that you really disaprove of, like chillul shabbos? or how about taking our jewish brothers out of their homes and lives and dumping them on the street with no where to go (what we like to call disengagement)? Maybe you want you money to go to treif food for the ministers in the govt?
These number make absolutely no sense, so I hope they are no accurate. There should be at least 3 times the number of students in Yeshiva Ketana as in Kollel and less students in Yeshiva than in Kollel.
Last I checked, the Chareidim were having something like an average of 8 kids per family. I think it would make sense if more students were in Yeshiva Ketana than in Kollel.
If the numbers are accurate, we (collectively) have problems.
Maybe the numbers do make sense. Just about everyone winds up in Kollel. And they stay there for years and years. That explains the large number there.
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