Sunday, May 22, 2005

Kollel Only Schools

Marvin Schick writes a very good article Kollel Only Schools decrying this new phenomenon.

He is absolutely right that this is a terrible thing and should be opposed. The fact is that the children of great men many times fail to live up to their illustrious parents while children of humble backgrounds become Gedolei Hador.

R' Wolbe whose passing was mourned by the whole Yeshiva world was one such person whose parents were not even frum. Would he even have a chance today to blossom into the Adam Gadol that he became?

9 comments:

a pashut yid said...

Why do we need to stop this phenomenon? If you dont like, dont send your kid there. Why would you want your kid to be in a school that has, in your mind, a backwards hashkafa? If they want to put their kids in this messed up school, why should it bother anyone else? There are so many different schools out there, and if you can narrow your choice down by a few, whats the problem?
And besides, I dont think there are that many. I just think that in the "Torah world" where learning torah on a serious lever for a long time is of such importance, pople want their kids surrounded by people who are machshiv sitting and learning torah. Not every avreich gets his kids into these chadorim, either. These kollel only chadorim are usually (from what i understand) reserved for the most serious avreichim, who want a certain intensity in the chinuch of their children. Having them going to friends houses with a working father, often means a less intense approach to torah learning. Is it 100% true? No. Is it close? I dont know. But these mechanchim / hanhala bc of the parents wishes, are not taking chances.

I just dont see why this is a problem for most people on this web site. I would assume that the people here are not in bnei brak or ezras torah and tryin to get their kids into some exclusive cheider. So what does it matter to you? The chareidi world isnt sitting back and mocking other school systems. (OK, some people are, but not the serious thinkers.) There are more important things to do.

bluke said...

Because this creates a class system. The gemara in Nedarim 81a comments that the children of Talmidei Chachamim are very often not Talmidei Chachamim and the children of the poor very often became the next generation of Talmidei Chachamim. This kind of system discourages that. It encourages the thinkiing that only the children of people who are sitting and learning can become gedolei torah.

bluke said...

The gemara in Nedarim 81a speaks out exactly against he phenomenon that you are talking about.

ומפני מה אין מצויין ת"ח לצאת ת"ח מבניהן אמר ר יוסף שלא יאמרו תורה ירושה הוא אצלם ר ששת בריה דר אידי אומר כדי שלא יתגדרו על הציבור.
R' Yosef said why is it that talmidei chachamim's son's are rarely talmidei chachamim? So that people will not say that Torah is an inheritance. R' Sheshes the son of R' Idi said so that they will not become haughty and imperious over the people (because they and their ancestors were Talmidei Chachamim).


The talmidei chachamim, or more correctly the people sitting and learning in kollel (since not everyone who is sitting and learning in kollel) have becime haughty and imperious and don't want their children mixing with the המון עם. In addition they think that because they are Talmidei Chachamim their children will become Talmidei Chachamim again against the gemara, Torah is not an inheritance its needs to be earned and can be mastered by anyone.

dave said...

As I posted on Mr. Schick's website, will someone please publish a list of these schools, so people can be aware of where not to send money to?

bluke said...

I don't have a list. I have seen ads in Israel where the ad specifically states this. I don't know about the US.

Anonymous said...

"pople want their kids surrounded by people who are machshiv sitting and learning torah. Not every avreich gets his kids into these chadorim, either. These kollel only chadorim are usually (from what i understand) reserved for the most serious avreichim, who want a certain intensity in the chinuch of their children. Having them going to friends houses with a working father, often means a less intense approach to torah learning."

it means understanding that these parents are generally speaking *supporting the schools* they learn so intensely in.

a pashut yid said...

If a conservative person would give money, should they be able to get their kid in the school?


Again, I understand that you would like to follow this gemara in nedarim and express that talmidei chachamim is not an inheritance. Why do you care that people do this? Do you think that we will have fewer talmidei chachamim because of this trend? I am not sure why this bothers you so much. Is it about money, that you dont want to support a school where you couldnt get your kid into? Do you not want to send money to a cheider who you feel will not produce gedolei hador, since their parents learn in kollel?

I see in your other post that nowadays you notice a trend against the gemara. Maybe they hold like these roshei yeshivos - since you names so many :)

Kin said...

There's a great tradition of g'dolim coming from less then stellar begings, even in our generation. R' Nosson Tzvi Finkel (RY of Mir) went to Ida Crown in Chicago. The Boyaner Rebbe went to Ramaz.

Anonymous said...

Actually, Reb Nosson Tzvi attended the Chicago Jewish Academy which was renamed the Ida Crown Jewish Academy. I know because we were both class of 1960.