tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11287959.post5221357811414617347..comments2023-11-02T12:16:19.495+02:00Comments on The Jewish Worker: Party primaries in Israel, democracy at work or a big joke?blukehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03774763780910614203noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11287959.post-35476942638076868462012-11-28T15:43:57.873+02:002012-11-28T15:43:57.873+02:00PS: were a person to only make one choice, the peo...PS: were a person to only make one choice, the people directing things, the chaim katzes and moshe feiglins, could still do it, just like american unions and churches push certain candidates. people wouldn't have to take a piece of paper into the booth but that is a detail.Ben Waxmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02798895161663664689noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11287959.post-15824289588007398462012-11-28T15:39:05.434+02:002012-11-28T15:39:05.434+02:00i don't know about egpyt but i have never hear...i don't know about egpyt but i have never heard that elections in the PA were not held properly. in fact,i've heard the opposite. <br /><br />i hasten to add that elections alone do not make a country democratic.Ben Waxmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02798895161663664689noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11287959.post-5164943062264031852012-11-28T15:34:49.470+02:002012-11-28T15:34:49.470+02:00There is a connection between regional elections a...There is a connection between regional elections and sane primaries. With regional elections in the US you choose 1 candidate in the primaries. With the list based system here you are forced to choose a large number of candidates which makes it very hard to make real informed choices.<br /><br />I am pretty sure that you are the exception. Everyone I talked to at the polls was basically voting for 1 or 2 people and then filling in the rest based on someone's list.<br /><br />Elections in the PA, Egypt, etc, were "democratic" according to your definition as well. My comment was more to the point that because of the system most people are not making informed choices.<br />blukehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03774763780910614203noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11287959.post-12446003757059559042012-11-28T15:22:02.826+02:002012-11-28T15:22:02.826+02:00regional elections and primaries are not connected...regional elections and primaries are not connected. the us has regional elections and primaries. if you want to get rid of primaries, you still need some method of choosing candidates. <br /><br />the likud's rules are (IMO) better than the mafdal's. and yes, it makes complete sense to me that we didn't rank. if choosing a candadite is hard enough, ranking them is simply one more factor. <br /><br />as for informed choices - with the exception of one candidate who i chose simply because of his ethnicity, the rest were based on real reasons.<br /><br />the real problem that i have with your post is your declaration that the primaries were <b>not</b> democratic. i seriously doubt that most voters in the US could show how their votes are informed choices, even when talking about the presidential election. but that doesn't make the elections non-democratic. it means that people aren't thinking about their choices, that's it. Ben Waxmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02798895161663664689noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11287959.post-91221957950897286072012-11-28T14:59:18.278+02:002012-11-28T14:59:18.278+02:00The specific case of Chaim Katz is very troubling ...The specific case of Chaim Katz is very troubling for a number of reasons:<br />1. There is definitely an element of coercion in terms of who to vote for<br />2. There is a conflict of interest in being an MK and head of the union.blukehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03774763780910614203noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11287959.post-18270198487108787212012-11-28T14:55:15.967+02:002012-11-28T14:55:15.967+02:00No system is flawless, but the current system seem...No system is flawless, but the current system seems to me to be very flawed. Did you really make an informed decision for all of your 12 choices? Does it make sense that you can't rank your preferences? <br /><br />IMHO one of the biggest problems in Israeli politics is that there is zero accountability and no one represents you. <br /><br />Any regional system would have to be set up so that there is no gerrymandering, clear rules on how districts are created and non-political commissions creating them (see <a href="http://www.timesunion.com/opinion/article/Gerrymandering-Not-in-Iowa-1336319.php" rel="nofollow">Iowa</a> in the US for a success story)blukehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03774763780910614203noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11287959.post-84042024236474162172012-11-28T08:33:12.712+02:002012-11-28T08:33:12.712+02:00democratic theory (at least madison in the federal...democratic theory (at least madison in the federalist papers, one of the most basic works on democracy) recognizes the existence of pressure groups. any group has the right to organize and work to further their goals. do you decry the existence of the jewish vote in the US? so why get upset that chaiam katz was able to organize aircraft industry workers? i will note that madison assumed that competing groups would balance out things and ensure that no one group can get too much power. <br /><br />having to vote for 12 candidates is a bug in the system; it doesn't pasul the system. <br /><br />no system is flawless. regional voting brings with it things like gerrymandering and pork barrel (or in israel beef barrel) politics. you want to see useless building projects in afula? change the system so that afula has its own rep in the knesset.<br /><br />btw - i didn't have a list.Ben Waxmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02798895161663664689noreply@blogger.com