tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11287959.post113430625722842546..comments2023-11-02T12:16:19.495+02:00Comments on The Jewish Worker: Who was the mother of דינה?blukehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03774763780910614203noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11287959.post-1134571235555569372005-12-14T16:40:00.000+02:002005-12-14T16:40:00.000+02:00"Saying that there wer 2 mothers (which I have not..."Saying that there wer 2 mothers (which I have not heard of)"<BR/><BR/>I believe it's RSZAuerbach's position. <BR/><BR/>" doesn't answer the Tur's question. The Tur asked how could Shimon marry Dina if they have the same mother. If Dina had 2 mothers and one of them was Leah, then Shimon and Dina were brother and sister from the mother and they could not marry. According to the Tur you have to say that Leah was not Dina's mother."<BR/><BR/>I wsa positing that leah was not the mother as far as dinei arayos is concerned, but perhaps for other purposes was. <BR/><BR/>"The fact that the Torah calls Din bas Leah is not a question. In the eyes for the world Leah was her mother. Besides Leah, who knew that al pi din Dina was really Rachel's daughter? Leah would not tell anyone as it would be embarrassing to her sister. In addition, Leah raised Dina as her daughter and therefore she is called her mother by the Torah"<BR/><BR/>I find this unsatisfactory. (We all know that al pi din rachel was her mother, acc. to you - and they would have too, because she married shimon. How can you say this was private info, when we deduce it from the marriage?) And what are you positing - that she was a yatzanis because leah raised her to be one too? Chazal seem to see her as a literal mother<BR/><BR/>I'm aware of the 40 days - my question is whether anyone says explicitly that the person in whom the fetus is implanted at 40 days is the relevant mother (other than your speculation about the Tur). All the 40 days halachas are based on the idea that until 40 days there is nothing. Howver, at 40 days, no conception is taking place, so we aren't discussing a mother in that sense, and 40 days is also not birth. It would lead to very odd scenarios - for ex, acc. to you, if theoretically it is possible to transfer a fetus from one woman to another for a few days, one could theoretically have the woman who is neither the mother at conception or at birth as the "real" mother simply because she happened to be the one carrying the baby at the moment that the baby is considered to be viable. I'm not saying this isn't possible. But I've never heard anyone suggest such a thing l'ma'ase (perhaps because it's not practically relevant ATM).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11287959.post-1134547409088771122005-12-14T10:03:00.000+02:002005-12-14T10:03:00.000+02:00The din of 40 days is brought down l'halacha with ...The din of 40 days is brought down l'halacha with regards to a number of dinim. <BR/><BR/>A miscarriage within 40 days carries no tumat leidah nor does it necessitate the bringing of a korban. <BR/><BR/>A widowed bas cohen who was married to a yisrael is allowed to eat the terumah in her father's house for forty days following her husband's demise because even if she is pregnant, the ubar doesn't count as an entity of disqualification. <BR/><BR/>Some poskim hold that there is no issur to have an within 40 days.<BR/><BR/>The gemara in Berachos states that you can daven for the sex of the child until 40 days.blukehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03774763780910614203noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11287959.post-1134546782962546722005-12-14T09:53:00.000+02:002005-12-14T09:53:00.000+02:00The fact that the Torah calls Din bas Leah is not ...The fact that the Torah calls Din bas Leah is not a question. In the eyes for the world Leah was her mother. Besides Leah, who knew that al pi din Dina was really Rachel's daughter? Leah would not tell anyone as it would be embarrassing to her sister. In addition, Leah raised Dina as her daughter and therefore she is called her mother by the Torahblukehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03774763780910614203noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11287959.post-1134546630472485052005-12-14T09:50:00.000+02:002005-12-14T09:50:00.000+02:00Saying that there wer 2 mothers (which I have not ...Saying that there wer 2 mothers (which I have not heard of) doesn't answer the Tur's question. The Tur asked how could Shimon marry Dina if they have the same mother. If Dina had 2 mothers and one of them was Leah, then Shimon and Dina were brother and sister from the mother and they could not marry. According to the Tur you have to say that Leah was not Dina's mother.blukehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03774763780910614203noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11287959.post-1134514940923429942005-12-14T01:02:00.000+02:002005-12-14T01:02:00.000+02:00I should add that IIRC those who hold l'halacha th...I should add that IIRC those who hold l'halacha that there are two mothers I believe also hold that this counts for arayos, not like what I am positing the tur might hold.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11287959.post-1134514877687308002005-12-14T01:01:00.000+02:002005-12-14T01:01:00.000+02:00"And possibly one is more significant than the oth..."And possibly one is more significant than the other."<BR/><BR/>iow, that leah's impact is not for arayos, but she's mentioned because she is also a mother and had spiritual impact on dina.<BR/><BR/>i think this is interesting as a halachic issue (what did the tur hold), but I find the other explanations offered more compelling (they were all geyrim, or the midrash that she married shimon conflicts with the man d'amar that a ben noach can't marry achoso meyimo, etc). <BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>12:49 AMAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11287959.post-1134514283141695082005-12-14T00:51:00.000+02:002005-12-14T00:51:00.000+02:00"2. Wherever the fetus is 40 days after conception..."2. Wherever the fetus is 40 days after conception (as until then it is considered מיא בעלמא and for example you are allowed to daven for the sex of the child)"<BR/><BR/>I've never heard of this shita. Does anyone bring it l'halacha?<BR/><BR/>What if theoretically a fetus could be in test tube past 40 days and then implanted. Are you saying there then would be no mother?<BR/>I've only heard your options 1 & 3 and that there can be two mothers.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11287959.post-1134514173245992102005-12-14T00:49:00.000+02:002005-12-14T00:49:00.000+02:00but it says in posuk vateytza dina bas leah.and th...but it says in posuk vateytza dina bas leah.<BR/>and the midrash does say that leah was a yatzonis, which implies spiritual motherhood too<BR/><BR/>very difficult pshat. I think a better resolution is to say that the tur holds that there are two mothers, which is a shita. And possibly one is more significant than the other.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com